Ba Sing Se (Military/Battle Discussion)

[chamir]

Time we stop piddlin' 'round and get blasted moving!

Filling everyone in: For about a year now there has been a slow moving <sub>plot of an attack upon Ba Sing Sei.

Thus far it has culminated into the stalled Rally Point thread.

Yet even given the lack of, and maybe the possibilty of getting around, an Agni post we still face the problem of our oft absent [Admiral] Ashuku. >.>; Not only is he the one leading the attack but is most likely the only one with the plans/strategy for attacking Ba Sing Se. >.<;

But due to his possibly continued absence and in order to keep a number of characters out of RP limbo...

Maybe Shuky should be side-lined and/or NPCed until his return. Meanwhile Azula would take command of the entire force marching towards Ba Sing Se. Finally moving things along... hopefully.

And if this plan is agreed upon this thread can further serve as C&C (command and control) in coordinating and cooperating the movements of both the FN forces and the defending EK forces, among other things.

But first things first. Command change over to Princess Azula, yay or nay (if she agrees to take up the role)?</sub>

[prodigy]

I don't have a problem leading the Army until Shuky returns. :3

[mulaqi]

Amen to that, brotha! Amen!

[chamir]

That taken care of... what's say we make a possibly convoluted yet convenient time skip? ^_^;;

In fact, time skip to a new thread with the FN army on the march to BSS.

In fact, to brace the board and gamers for the shock/assault, let's try and manage this as, at least, a two-part/two-thread story arc.

One for the march to BSS. And one at the walls of BSS.

Hopefully it'll give late comers time to join in, whether it be Shuky or players wanting to hopefully wrap up their threads. It'll also give us a chance to figure out a siege strategy. Let characters like Bora Gan and Cheng attempt to ----block the FN before they reach the walls. And a chance to for an actual player vs player skirmish.

And once we're finally at BSS we can maybe make a larger event out of it. >.>;

[iikagen]

Well, I do kinda like the idea of a march/set-up thread for the FN army to kinda organize itself and make all its battle preparations outside the wall.

As far as suggestions:

We need to determine an actual battle plan for the Fire Nation to break through the outer wall.

Figuring out exactly how many troops each side possess will probably play a major role in the attacking/defending strategies.

It might be good to decided which side will be ultimately victorious.

[mulaqi]

I also like the whole "marching thread" idea. It would be interesting on its own, but also allows for people to finish up their current RPs if they wish to be involved.

As for breaking through the wall, I'd say we should try to avoid the super-weapon cliche ala The Drill. While a great episode of Avatar, it would kind of be an unfair advantage here. Just throwing that out there.

Anyway, here's my idea: a small team of soldiers somehow infiltrating the outer wall (maybe through a tunnel or something) and sabatoging it from the inside while the main force draws the defenders' attention with a frontal assault. It would end up being a two front battle in the end with plenty to do for a large number of characters.

[iikagen]

The question still remains, though, of how to break through the wall? I'm sure they could always just line up a few hundred trebuchets and try to wear it down, but that would take a lot of time for a wall this big.

The smaller force would also face a similar challenge. Unless they were somehow privvy to the information of a tunnel within the wall that EK forces used themselves, I don't know if they'd be able to blast through the 80-something foot thick walls unnoticed. It'd take a lot of explosives or equipment and wouldn't go unnoticed for long. There's also the possibility of an earthbender dicovering the ploy halfway through and simply caving in their work around them.

I best suggestion would have been a combined effort at one location tosimply bore partially into the outer wall and then pack the hole with explosives. They could perhaps do this in several locations along the wall near each other. The resulting explosion could weaken the foundation of the wall to the point wear a section might simply topple forward and provide an opening for the FN to rush through before benders can start reforming the barrier.

[mulaqi]

Yeah, the smaller force would be a bit of a challenge to get into the city, but I'm sure we could think of something. The tunnel was just an example idea. They could always try to get in through the refugee entrance either by force or with stealth. It would be a decent strategy to blow it up from the inside, since, as you pointed out, they'd need a foothold within the outer wall ASAP to prevent the wall from being repaired. With an inside force, they could already have that foothold.

I dunno, just charging in and planting explosives seems so ho-hum boring/didn't I just see this in Two Towers?-ish.

[iikagen]

I dunno, just charging in and planting explosives seems so ho-hum boring/didn't I just see this in Two Towers?-ish.

Hehe, it's ingenious in its simplicity... ;D

Besides, with a wall that huge, there's not many other cheap or efficient ways to allow an entire army through. Battering rams would have to be on a scale comparable to the Drill in order to be plausible, and regular artillery would takes weeks or even months to tear the wall down. A combination drilling and explosives operation that could weaken the wall's structural integrity seems like the best option.

But if you want to pull it off in a more clever, less-boring way, then perhaps this might work.

Have the Fire Nation army march to the outskirts of the wall and make camp within sight of the sentries. Overnight, have the army light up torches and begin its march once more, moving along the wall's perimeter and keeping the defenders' eyes fixed on the moving forces. Meanwhile, they could leave behind a sizeable number of their troops who begin drilling and planting the explosives while it's dark and all eyes are fixed elsewhere. The next day, the Fire Nation could set up its trebuchets and artillery, and once again, at nightfall, allow a division of tanks or cavalry to break off and join the explosives team. While they do that, the artillery would unleash a bombardment against the wall in order to convince the defenders that that was the location of their true attack.

Meanwhile, once the tanks and cavalry arrive, the explosives are blown, the wall is brought down at that location, and the soldiers stream into the area and establish a beachhead.

That sound a little less "ho-hum boring/didn't I just see this in Two Towers?-ish"?

[chamir]

O.o ... actually I think there was something like that in bible maybe. Somewhere around post-Exodus maybe.

Except for the tanks, drills, explosives and what not, of course. >.>;;

But the fact remains...

iikagen said:

Hehe, it's ingenious in its simplicity... ;D

[earthking]

For those of you who missed the discussion in the choi last night:

There is a plot point being discussed of captured earthbenders during the "marching thread" who will later be... "convinced" to aid the Fire Nation in taking down the walls. Helping them to burrow n' plant explosives. Maybe even keep [parts of] the wall from being reformed once it falls.

Jus' throwing that out there for discussion.

Note of interest: Toph/Hotaru may be considering of making one of these coerced POWs

Numbers estimation game: Looking around for the numbers/sizes to different military units. Bora Gan leads a battalion--as one would assume from a name like "Thunderfist Battalion" <.<

Thus it stands to reason its size as 300 to 1000. Though I'm not sure if that includes noncombatants like clerks, cooks, medics, suppliers, etc.

So I guess we can play with the Fire Nation army's strength being at least 1000 to maybe... um... to no larger than... 10,000 to 20,000 (very very barely)? Not including Azula's entourage and her entourage's entourage. XD

One more thing: Looking at the map... should we have any sort of idea where they're marching from, the path they're taking and where they intend to attack from.

Keeping in mind Bora Gan is intercepting from Kei Lan and the FN is on the side of the Serpent's Pass nearer to BSS. And so I'm somehow guessing that both groups are marching to the encampment at the lagoon (or was it bay?) that the drill was being built at and is under FN control.

[mulaqi]

I'm not to keen on the captured earthbenders, really. Not only does it add more FN characters when we seem to have plenty, but do we really need earthbenders where a few pick-axes or battering rams will do?

Of course, I'm still not so sure on the idea as a whole, in large part because Azula would be in command. A straight-forward strategy like this doesn't seem to fit the kind of cruel cunning that she seems to love so much. If she had a wonderfully devlish gizmo like the big drill, then I can see it sort of, but again I think we want to avoid a super-weapon scenario simply because with the Gaang, it would be pretty much unstoppable.

The numbers and all the technical stuff seems good, though.

EDIT: Also, the Fire Nation should lose, leading to a "retreat thread" that sort of puts the FN in a reversal of the "marching thread". That would be fun.

[nasrin]

If Bora Gan does ever lead his batallion into battle against the Fire nation, i can only assume he'd be hitting them from behind since the FN is directly between him and BSS. You could possibly even have him come in and attack after the battle has actually begun. Once the FN has infiltrated the outer wall, they could launch an attack from the wall and almost force them into the city where they would be unable to escape. The threat of being trapped between the walls might be severe enough that the FN decides that it must make a tactical retreat back to the outside.

Of course, if Bora Gan strikes quickly enough, he could start to push the FN back in and they would be bottlenecked at the point where they brought down the wall. That would lead into some pretty high casualties for the FN, and once they break out of the city, they might have suffered enough losses that they decide to abandon the siege, especially if forces from the inner wall also join the effort.

My only concern for that is the fact that Bora's troops would have to pass through a Lot of FN-controlled territory, so he'd have to be moving very fast to get there even a little while before scouts bring the news to the FN commanders.

[boragan]

Most likely, I would only bring 3/4 of the Thunderfist Battalion. 1/4 would be stationed at the BSS location while the other 2/4 would come in from behind to attack FN as they engage the walls of BSS. At first, he would try to fool the FN army with the lack of numbers he brought with him. Seeing as the Thunderfist Battalion would be adept in fighting in the terrain of the area as well as travelling, they would excel in the fight if the forces sandwiched the FN army between themselves and the wall.

Meanwhile, earthbenders as well as Bora's earthbending ability would reinforce the wall with earth-like beams that would hold the wall together while also using them as make shift ladders for soldiers to travel to the top of the wall for warfare.

[chamir]

Kind o' curious if we can actually get an opening act/something running.

Maybe a thread starring Bora Gan and Jingko. It'll give Aden a chance to use the latter (and finally getting rid of him). XD

And if need be the EK soldier Cheng and Yuu Yan Kasen could join in if possible. Maybe? =/

Well, any feedback from you two?